No RAM Problems because... No RAM!

[JAGirard]

I am in the process of building a new machine centered around Intel's i7-980X chip and a Gigabyte X58A-UD7 motherboard.

I am having a very difficult time finding the correct RAM for the 980X. Intel did an interesting thing - they put the RAM controller on the CPU the stepped the voltage DOWN, not UP, which makes sense, considering the density of the CPU.

Well, that's dangerous. In the RAM world, as speeds and capacity increased, so did voltage, as one would expect. But, Intel said, essentially, that they were going to do more with less. So, now, the required RAM voltage for the 980X is 1.5V ~5%, not the 1.65V that the majority of the faster RAM requires at the moment.

Fine.

After much research, the ideal RAM for this machine would be 24GB in six slots of 4GB each at 1.5V and 10666GHz.

G.Skill makes such modules and I would be happy to buy 6x4GB Ripjaw modules with the above specs from G.Skill as I am confident that the machine would work very well with them.

But, here's the problem, and a question or two...

This whole new approach to RAM by Intel is as new to me as it is to everyone else, so, while my questions may sound naive, everybody is naive at the moment, and the questions are important to sound buying decisions and optimal implementation with very expensive CPUs.

Questions:

Is there an actual, physical design difference between modules that can do dual-channeling and triple channeling?

For instance, here are the identifying numbers for two Ripjaws modules:

Ripjaws F3-10666CL9D-8GBRL
[ RL ] F3-10666CL9T-12GBRL

I don't know what [ RL ] means. I do know what 8GBRL and 12GBRL mean, but, still not what the 'RL' means.

But, far more importantly, the 'D' and the 'T' have me confused.

Are they identical chipsets? One being sold as dual-channel and one being sold as triple-channel? Same specs, same latency, 9-9-9-24 I believe.

And, if that's the case, is there any reason I can't buy the F3-10666CL9D modules and triple-channel them? Or is there really something on the chips that differentiates them? Makes one a dual-channel set, and the other a triple-channel set?

I realize that if it's true that modules marketed as dual-channel can also be used on triple-channel capable machines, that presents a bit of a problem for RAM manufacturers. Initially. Sure, the cheaper, slower stuff becomes the more desired stuff. But, it's easier to make.

But, right now, everybody is losing. People have to know what they're buying. And people like me are willing to spend the money to buy the right thing, one time.

So, if you can tell me that I can put the Ripjaws F3-10666CL9D-8GBRL modules in the computer I'm building, and that I will be able to triple-channel the 'D' modules, I'll buy 24GB in a heartbeat.

If that is not the case, and I actually need the 'T' modules, please be kind enough to tell me where to source them in Germany, as I can't find any. Anywhere.

Thanks very much for your help!

-JAG

[chdude3]

But, far more importantly, the 'D' and the 'T' have me confused.

Are they identical chipsets? One being sold as dual-channel and one being sold as triple-channel? Same specs, same latency, 9-9-9-24 I believe.

D = Dual, T = Triple. Buying the D kit will get you 2 sticks of RAM, the T kit will get you 3. I expect the individual sticks of RAM are essentially identical, but G.Skill will have tested the Ds as a pair in a suitable system and the Ts as a triplet in a suitable system.

If you're going to be getting 6 sticks of RAM, theoretically I don't think there's anything stopping you from getting three sets of D versus two sets of T, except that as I said above, the T sets will have been tested together as a triplet.

[JAGirard]

Testing...

So, they are the same sticks, and have been either tested as dual, or triple channel together. That is very interesting, very important, and very good to know!

Thanks very much for that info!

Hmmmm...

[wevsspot]

For all intents and purposes you can mix-n-match dual and triple channel kits without issue. The primary considerations being the same voltage and timing specifications.

And as far as Intels "1.5v" onboard memory controller requirement, rest assured that if you so chose you could run any model memory that is rated at up to 1.65v DRAM Voltage without issue.

[JAGirard]

Interesing...

I actually have 12GB of 1600C8 6x2GB modules of Corsair 1.65V memory sitting in the house at the moment. CMP6GX3M3A 1600C8, to be precise.

What I have read from Intel's specs is that it would take that memory and step it down to 1.5V and 10666MHz, regardless of whatever overclocking I might be interested, which I'm not.

So, I don't really understand the difference between using the slower, lower speed chips, and using the higher voltage, faster speed chips, when they all seem to wind up in the same place. Yes, I could use the memory I have, but, no, not to its potential. Not without some LEDs on the MB coming on...ones I don't want to see.

So, right now, it seems to me to be a better idea to return the faster, higher voltage memory, and populate the board with what it can use as designed.

[JAGirard]

Um, no...

No, the lower voltage, slower speed memory is what I meant. That is what makes more sense at the moment.

[wevsspot]

So, right now, it seems to me to be a better idea to return the faster, higher voltage memory, and populate the board with what it can use as designed.

If that is an option by all means

It's just that Intel voltage criteria are always low, always......................

Since you the option of returning your current RAM and exchanging for RAM that more closely aligns with the design specs of your processor, by all means go for it.

For anyone else with a similar problem but without the option of returning RAM - you can always downclock the memory operating frequency and reduce voltages. It is worth a try.

[JAGirard]

Memory Speed and Voltage in Reserve

This helps, Wev, because, if I am understanding correctly, I could actually use the Corsair RAM I have, the CPU will step it down to 1.5V at which it will perform at around 1066MHz, which is what I would have spent money on new chips that do only that, without having future possibilities for 1600MHz hanging around in the background.

So, it makes more sense to step down the chips I have to the correct voltage for the CPU and use them that way. I have not done the BIOS dance through the UD7 yet, but, now this is making more sense, and I could most likely use the chipset I have with the 980X and the right settings, without blowing anything up, or sacrificing any performance since I'm looking at 1066MHz and 1.5V anyway, and the CPU will do that with those Corsair chips.

Any wonder that people are confused?

[biohazard]

not sure what i'm missing, i see what you're saying and intel's site says they only support 1066, and amd's site says their phenoms support the 1333. yet this guy's thread:

http://gskill.us/forum/showthread.php?t=6521

he's using 2k + mhz ram, and they are telling him to up the voltage? what am i missing here? if that is safe, why are you so worried about getting the 1066?

[GSKILL TECH]

Let me jump in here.. =)

Intel and AMD can only support the JEDEC standard since they don't really want to support overlocking. Anything above the JEDEC standard is considered overclocking. Oddly, DDR3-1333 CL9 is the standard, but Intel and AMD will state DDR3-1066 at times to be safe especially when high capacity is involved.

BUT, of course us overclockers and consumers don't really want the standard anymore. We're in year 2010 and we want better than standard. Both AMD and Intel can support higher than rated memory frequencies/voltages. As far as memory controlling, Intel is clearly ahead, which is why you see DDR3-2400+ for Intel, but not AMD.

Now to get onto this new i7 980X CPU talk. This is a special chip, much different than the i7 920, 930, 940, 950, 960, everything that came before it. What's the difference you ask? Before, the QPI frequency must double DRAM Frequency. For this reason, we all boosted QPI voltages in the RED, just for DDR3-2000. Well, now the 980X only needs 1.5X DRAM Frequency for the QPI frequency, so QPI voltages will be much lower. As a result, memory frequency can be pushed much higher. This is how we have been able to work on a DDR3-2500 kit, and reach triple channel records near DDR3-3000.

So to JAGirard, your Corsairs would work fine. It just requires the necessary voltage boosts to support over standard. Most motherboards can automatically support DDR3-1600, but to reach DDR3-2000, manual voltages are required.

If you want to stay within Intel spec, plug and play, then DDR3-1333 CL9, the RipJaws 24GB kit you selected, will be perfect. But if you want performance, you'll can find many of our Trident 24GB kits that are made specifically for this CPU and motherboard.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...on=gskill+24gb

DDR3-1333 is apparently out of stock.

Thank you
GSKILL TECH

[JAGirard]

Then there's the price...

Thanks very much for your informative response!

Based on your response, and on others', I'm going to see what I can do with the Corsair RAM I've already purchased. That could, and should, work, but not up to its spec, which is fine.

Failing that, I could go to a fine set of to-the-spec RAM from G.Skill in a heartbeat. No tweaking involved. That would just work.

That all stated, there's more. I know why RAM prices are ridiculously high right now. Were I to follow your recommendation for the full boat of 24GB of superb RAM, that would cost more than the processor, which is a bit insane because the processor, the 980X, actually does things, and does them very quickly. RAM is a bucket. You put things in, and you pull them out. Sure, speed is a very big factor on how efficient that bucket is.

But, I am not paying more for the bucket than I am for the the thing that is doing the actual work.

Nor do I really need 24GB of RAM. 6GB would be fantastic, but, I want to triple-channel 12GB, which will be way more than I need for now.

I was just worried about the voltages involved with the 980X chip.

This machine will be built within the next week.

I thank everybody who responded to my inquiry - you've all been very helpful!

On to assembly....

[GSKILL TECH]

If you don't do memory intensive work, then there is surely no need for high capacity.

In case you're interested, there are six kits of these that will be available on NewEgg shortly.

F3-16000CL6T-6GBPID

They are very limited. Typically only ten sets per month, but this month only 6, so that's how limited they are. They use the best chips on the market, which is why they are so rare. Just FYI since this kit would go perfect with your hardware. For the performance enthusiasts, this kit is to die for.

Thank you
GSKILL TECH

[JAGirard]

Yes, that chipset would work wonderfully with this system. I'm not actually doing full-length feature movie editing at the moment, but, it's good to know that I could.

Out of curiosity, what do you estimate that the street price would be for those units? Individually, or in sets of three?

I have a feeling that because of the very low latency and limited availability, they would cost more than the entire computer...or? (for the full boat of 24GB)

Interesting info, though! Thanks, and keep it coming!

[wevsspot]

You can bet that they will be priced according to their demand - especially at NewEgg (which by the way still shows them as discontinued for now).

[GSKILL TECH]

It's not too bad, $299 the last time I checked for one kit (6GB). Our top of the line pricing is the same as basic performance memory from other companies.. so although NewEgg prices according to demand, G.Skill pricing will still always be best. Even I don't know how we do it, but we do. =D

Thank you
GSKILL TECH